Boy Scouts’ dithering over its gay and lesbian problem makes it look bad

(To see Cal Grondahl’s cartoon that goes with this post, click here) The Boy Scouts of America have taken a (temporary?) step back from doing a good deed, and that’s a shame. When the Scouts announced that they were going to have a vote on whether Scouting affiliates would have the option to allow gays in the organization, it seemed that a call of that magnitude, and the relatively short time frame, was a hint that the change would be made.

Apparently not. The Scouts got cold feet and wandered off into indecisiveness. Both the Utah Scouts and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (which has not issued an opinion on the change) were supportive of the Scouts putting off the change until May. But putting off the decision boosts the ugly premise that arguments against the change have some merit. They do not. It is wrong to deny gay people an active role in Scouting. It is not against the law, given the private nature of the organization, but it is discrimination and it is an ugly practice.

People who are opposed to having gays in Scouting, or even to the Scouts’ now-deferred compromise, should be pressured to explain their reasoning. They should clearly articulate why they believe a gay or lesbian individual who wants to be a leader in Scouting is immoral. They should explain what it is about that individual’s life that makes him or her unfit to be part of the Boy Scouts of America.

My guess is those questions would not get many clear answers. There’d be a lot of spin and squirming. If there were clear answers, it would reveal more about those who support the ban.

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19 Responses to Boy Scouts’ dithering over its gay and lesbian problem makes it look bad

  1. D. Michael Martindale says:

    It’s called stalling. Who knows how much behind-the-scenes pressure they’re getting from their supporters on both sides of the issue?

    I don’t know what they expect to achieve, though, by delaying. The issue is not going away, and the compromise they proposed is the only possible one to accommodate everyone’s wishes. They should just do it and be done with it.

    • D. Michael Martindale says:

      I will say this much, though. If they do maintain the ban, I’m going to suspect the same sort of devious machinations from the LDS Church that they perpetrated in the battle for Prop 8.

      • Doug Gibson says:

        D. Michael, I think the LDS Church is, in its own manner, slowly moving the right way on this issue.

        • Artcore says:

          Doug said:

          “It is wrong to deny gay people an active role in Scouting. It is not against the law, given the private nature of the organization, but it is discrimination and it is an ugly practice.”
          _________________________________

          Doug, let me ask you a question: what does one’s sexual preference have to do with Scouting? Seriously, why do other Scouts need to know if their fellow Scouts or Scout Masters are homosexuals? What does homosexuality have to do with camping, earning Merit badges and the like? Let me help you: NOTHING! If homosexuals want to be in the Scouts, why don’t they join and keep their sexual preferences to themselves? Why is it they feel the need to broadcast this to their fellow Scouts?

          You’re right; it’s not against the law for a private organization like the Boy Scouts to discriminate. Why should they have to lower their standards for homosexuals? If homosexuals don’t like it, they should start their own Scouting group. If not, they should join and keep their sexual deviancy to themselves. If they choose not to either of these, they should just pick up their marbles and go home. It’s not incumbent on the BSA to cave to Homosexuals. As a military veteran, I was glad we had don’t ask don’t tell. Same could be applied here.

          Doug, this stink that homosexuals are raising about not being allowed to join the Boy Scouts has nothing to do with wanting to be a Boy Scouts, but rather has everything to do with pushing the homosexual agenda. Sorry, but I don’t want a group of people who celebrate sodomy anywhere near my kids. Again, if this weren’t an agenda, this would never even be an issue.

          Stay strong BSA!

          • D. Michael Martindale says:

            Gosh, Art, those arguments sound so familiar! Like from the 1960′s or something like that, back during the civil rights movement.

            We all know the Boy Scouts are a private institution and can have whatever policy they want. No one’s arguing that. The fact that you think that’s a good argument to make just shows you don’t even understand the issue.

            The Boy Scouts have the right to ban gays, and the rest of us have the right to say the Boy Scouts are a bunch of bigoted assholes for banning gays and not support them. They’re reconsidering this ban specifically because their financial supporters are abandoning them, which is THEIR right to do.

            As for this “lowering their standards” notion, I know this is a hard concept for the minds of conservative religious types to wrap their mind around, but not everyone believes in the same standards as you! Imagine that! Some of us believe your so-called standards about gays are vile and bigoted!

            Some of us think the Boy Scouts allowing gays is raising their standards. You know, to that most Christlike of standards: loving one another.

          • Erick says:

            Every time I hear the phrase “homosexual agenda”, I wonder what that is? I would think the homosexual agenda might be to pursue some measure of equality in society, the right to be married, avoid discrimination, etc. However, the connotation I get from most of the comments about this “agenda” is that it is something far more sinister. Am I right on this Artcore? Is there more to the homosexual agenda than I understand?

        • D. Michael Martindale says:

          I know you do, and I hope you’re right. But my perception is they’re doing damage control after Prop 8, and they’ve gone about as far as they’re able to, having painted themselves into a corner over the years.

          • Artcore says:

            “Gosh, Art, those arguments sound so familiar! Like from the 1960′s or something like that, back during the civil rights movement.”

            Sorry, homosexuality is not a “civil rights movement”, it’s a sexual preference.

            “The Boy Scouts have the right to ban gays, and the rest of us have the right to say the Boy Scouts are a bunch of bigoted assholes for banning gays and not support them. They’re reconsidering this ban specifically because their financial supporters are abandoning them, which is THEIR right to do.”

            The Boy Scouts of America are not “bigoted assholes.” They have a set of rules and values that they believe in. Homosexuals have another set of “values” that they believe in. If they don’t like the BSA’s rules, let them start their own organization. Sounds like the homosexuals are the ones who are intolerant here. This is yet another case of militant homosexuals trying to push their perverse lifestyle down the throats of Americans. Like I said, all of the things that Scouting is about like: camping, learning outdoor skills and earning merit badges, has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality. Why does their sexual preference even play a part in this issue? This is yet one more attempt to try and normalize the homosexual lifestyle. The fact that its agenda driven is what bothers parents. Another way for homosexuals to try and convince and convert younger boys that this perverse lifestyle is healthy and normal. Sorry, but they’ve been trying since the beginning of time. Sodomy is not now, nor will it ever be normal!

            “As for this ‘lowering their standards’ notion, I know this is a hard concept for the minds of conservative religious types to wrap their mind around, but not everyone believes in the same standards as you! Imagine that! Some of us believe your so-called standards about gays are vile and bigoted!”

            You make my point exactly! Maybe homosexuals can begin to wrap their minds around the idea that not everyone believes in their “standards.” The fact that the Gay Community doesn’t respect the values of the BSA tells me they are bigoted also. Hate to be repetitive, but there are few things more “vile” than sodomy.

            “Some of us think the Boy Scouts allowing gays is raising their standards. You know, to that most Christlike of standards: loving one another.”

            So, if the BSA enforce their standards and refuse to allow homosexuals to join, they’re not being Christ like and “loving one another”? Says who? Because they don’t allow homosexuals, doesn’t mean they don’t love them as individuals; it means they have a standard they want to enforce.

            Since you brought God up, you must know his views on homosexuality…right? He calls it a perversion and an abomination and condemns it. I’ll take it you also know what Jesus taught about causing “little ones” to sin…right? You brought God up, so don’t give me any grief about challenging you.

            This entire issue has nothing to do with Gays wanting to be Scouts; it has everything to do with them trying to push their perverse, unhealthy lifestyle on impressionable kids, and trying to give it credibility and acceptance.

        • ZEN WORDSMITH says:

          Whereas, long that there is a [Celibate-
          Roman Priesthood] versus {i.e. Male-chez-
          idek}; mis-deeds will take place against the
          weaker youth in Christianity.
          I underwent [molestation] , under the “Order
          of the Arrow” [BSA] Scout Authority, while a
          member of the [Ogden 58th LDS Ward].
          This while the authoritarian figure of the
          entire restored [Mormon] church, was
          bestowed the honorary [Silver Wolf Palm].
          There will always be “weaker” Scouts. How-
          ever, it is up to the [Scout Master] to oversee
          duties, and to be accountable to [Clergy].
          I’ve grown-up, no worse for the better and
          pleased to report to my [Priest/Bishop] today
          that all of my children, have gotten there-
          selves a “palm”. This time however it is in
          the form of a swift “palm” on the seat of
          there behind, when they do wrong.
          Fly-Right, …”When a Choice is placed be-
          fore you”…
          Because for the “most part”.
          …”Mormons and Catholics [molest] even as
          they breath”…
          May God Bless family and homestead.

  2. Pingback: Scouts Say Gay Debate Was Ignited by a Leak – New York Times | GAYFRIENDSCHAT.com

  3. Neal Cassidy says:

    The next legal challenge to the Boy Scouts will be to their tax exempt status. It has cvome to be accepted now that tax exempt organizations should not be allowed to discriinate again certain classes of society. If the challenge was to allow black scouts or hispanic scouts the answer would be obvious. there have been some legal arguents made that those who receive tax exempt status should not be allowed to doiscriinate against any American. It will be interesting to see the legal arguents against the tax status if the scouts reject scouts who are gay.

    • Artcore says:

      To hold to their values, they will most likely have to drop their tax exempt status.

      If they cave on this issue, they’ll die on the vine as an American institution anyway. Sad, political correct times we live in.

  4. Ben Geiger says:

    Both the LDS church and the Civil Rights Movement are overstepping the bounds on freedom. The LDS church wants laws to prevent other churches from performing legal gay marriage. Many in the civil rights movement would support a law forcing all religions to perform gay marriages or a law forcing the scouts to have gay leaders.
    Isn’t freedom the ultimate win win? Let the organizations make these choices free of laws. If you don’t support what an organization chooses on gay issues, don’t participate in that organization. There will be organizations who support your views and you can belong to one of those. It would be a shame for all organizations to be forced by laws to have the same values. The ultimate Civil Right is to be able to have your own rules in your own institutions. Why does everyone want to force there values on the rest of society through laws? Freedom will end if we continue down this dangerous road!

  5. andrew h says:

    @ Erick (There is no “Reply” under your name so this is the best that I can do) You asked what the “Homosexual Agenda” was. I found this on the internet so it MUST be true ;)

    6:00 am Gym
    8:00 am Breakfast (oatmeal and egg whites)
    9:00 am Hair appointment
    10:00 am Shopping
    12:00 PM Brunch

    2:00 PM
    1) Assume complete control of the U.S. Federal, State and Local
    Governments as well as all other national governments,
    2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle,
    3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages,
    4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of
    Colombian and Jamaican drug cartels,
    5) Establish planetary chain of “homo breeding gulags” where over-
    medicated imprisoned straight women are turned into artificially
    impregnated baby factories to produce prepubescent love slaves for
    our devotedly pederastic gay leadership,
    6) bulldoze all houses of worship, and
    7) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the
    exclusive use of child pornographers.

    2:30 PM Get forty winks of beauty rest to prevent facial wrinkles from
    stress of world conquest
    4:00 PM Cocktails
    6:00 PM Light Dinner (soup, salad, with Chardonnay)
    8:00 PM Theater
    11:00 PM Bed?

    Then again, it might just be to live their lives, one day at a time, while putting a little a way for retirement, just like the rest of us. Thanks for your comments Erick and D. Michael Martindale, you give me hope for humanity

  6. Artcore says:

    No, they DON’T “just want to their live their lives.” They no longer just want acceptance; they now demand approval of their lifestyle. Consider the following:

    They want the God given institution of marriage between a man and a woman redefined to include their perversion.

    Some elementary schools are teaching young kids about this deviant lifestyle through “cute little books and stories.”

    They demand special provisions under the law when a crime is committed against them in the form of “hate crimes.”

    They now demand that private organizations like the Boy Scouts allow them entry, even though homosexuality has nothing to do with being a Boy Scout.

    So, yes indeed, homosexuals (who only make up about 1-2 % of the entire US population) are trying to shove their agenda down the throats of the population. Again, the fact that they’re making a stink about trying to join the BSA as open homosexuals (which has absolutely nothing to do with Scouting) tells me it is an AGENDA, pure and simple. Whether you like it or not, many parents do not want their kids around this type of influence. I certainly wouldn’t.

    So, a lifestyle that involves sodomy is one in which you celebrate and gives you hope for humanity? Our nation continues its downward spiral into the toilet.

  7. clark says:

    Excuse me, the Civil Rights movement over stepping their bounds on freedom? Friend there are no bounds as far as the law of the land goes. It’s the law either you abide by the law or you don’t, and I believe if you choose not to obey the law then you fall under the heading of the term outlaw . Remember polygamy? Another time another place where another bad tasting law where LDS church had rammed down their throats by the vile-evil federal government. Guess it’s time for another talk with the big guy upstairs (aka) revalation.

  8. Why do homosexuals and lesbians want to join the Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts of America don’t want them as members. it has to do with freedom. Free to choose, the boy scouts choose not to admit them. Why don’t the h and l accept their freedom of choice.

    • Kade says:

      Nobody is trying to take away their freedom. They are trying to say that the Boy Scouts are doing something wrong. Even if the BSA are free to do it, people have every right to say that they shouldn’t.

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