I bet Newt would hate the Mormons too

OK, the headline is a bit of a stretch, but maybe not as much as you might think.

Newt Gingrich, seriel philanderer and former House Speaker who resigned in disgrace, now spoken of as a possible contendor for President in 2012, has a piece in today’s Washington Post talking about a proposed Muslim worship center near the cite of the World Trade Center in New York, the 9-11 site.

Much is written about that proposed mosque, how Muslims killed all those people so we can’t have a mosque (or whatever it is) near there. That’s sort of like saying Baby Face Nelson was a Christian so we can’t have Christians working in banks, or something, but that’s the argument.

I kinda thought the whole point of freedom of religion was that we have it because we’re better than them. Now Newt is saying we should do away with it because the Saudis don’t allow it? So we should be like them?

No thanks. The Saudis cut off hands and support suicide bombers. They also donate money to the guys shooting at our soldiers in Afghanistan. If Newt wants to be like those sort of people, that’s his business, but not me.

And really, the  Saudi Arabians (mostly) in those planes on 9-11 did not, by all accounts, represent the Islamic faith or beliefs. They were rogue extremists, sort of like the allegedly Christian white supremists in this country who kill blacks and Jews in the name of God.

Should we ban Christian Churches in Idaho because of them?

Probably not.

Gingrich’s argument is even more of a stretch. Saudi Arabians don’t allow churches in Saudi Arabia, he said, so why should we allow a mosque in this country. Really, go read it. That is precisely what he says.

Needless to say, this harkens right back to the experience of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which was persecuted and harassed and burned out of town several times for holding beliefs not in line with their neighbors. They generated a lot of fear by talking big, causing hundreds to suffer for the actions of a few. Do Mormons today want to be discriminated against because of what Porter Rockwell did?

Gingrich is preaching the sort of religious intolerance that our country was specifically founded to do away with. It’s amazing that someone who claims to believe in this country, to support this country, who once (as a member of Congress) took an oath to preserve and defend the Constitution, could take such a stand.

What he’s doing is hoping the current hate-filled atmosphere in this country, coupled with unreasoning fear of all things Muslim because of  the actions of a few whackos, will get people to accept his insanely unAmerican thinking. He’s hoping to ride to the White House on that same wave of fear and hate.

He attacks “elites” who defend the mosque without ever saying who they are. Setting up straw men and attacking them is the laziest thinking around. Lazy thinking is the hallmark of those who hate and those who believe the haters.

Newt really thinks a sizeable number of Americans are dumb enough to ignore their own base founding beliefs and follow along with his hate.

What’s sad is, he’s probably right.

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37 Responses to I bet Newt would hate the Mormons too

  1. Mark Shenefelt says:

    I agree he is pandering to the fearful and vengeful. It’s nothing new for a guy who served his wife divorce papers while she was hospitalized.

    But I still have hope that more people will discern a difference between the building of a church and supporting terrorists. Smart people know we can still slam it to the terrorists without trampling our own founding freedoms.

  2. Doug Gibson says:

    I assume this is a matter for whatever entity gives the OK for what can be built there. I checked polls and Charlie is correct that most people, particularly in NYC, oppose the mosque.

    I have no objection to it, so long as it doesn’t turn into a type of mosque, one preaching jihad, that London has a few of. Toleration is a two-way street.

    I do side with this statement from Gingrich: “They should be asked by the news media if they would be willing to lead such a campaign.” …. Everyone should constantly ask those misogynists and bigots who run Saudi Arabia that question every day.

  3. laytonian says:

    OK, this is NOT politically correct, BUT someone has to say it:

    At what point, do we quit expanding “Ground Zero”? The mosque isn’t being built ON Ground Zero, it’s planned as a renovation to an older building (admittedly one hit by terrorist debris, but that could describe the entire lower tip of Manhattan).

    At what point, do we quit searching for remains? How many times have we sifted through concrete powder and steel, looking for tiny bits of bone? This last effort turned up about 25-40 small bits – after several months of sifting.

    At what point, do we remember that the remains of terrorists will be interred in any “memorial” built at Ground Zero — and that some of the sifted remains are obviously those of the guilty?

    At what point, do we honor the victims of Timothy McVeigh the same as we’ve honored the WTC victims? Why didn’t the OKC bombing victims each get a million dollars, like each 9/11 family did?

    Think! The woman in OKC whose leg was amputated to free her from the rubble of the Murrah Building, can’t even afford a decent prosthesis. Where’s HER million dollars?

    How come we vilify the Muslims, when the second-greatest terror attack on American soil, was committed by two right-wing Aryan Christians?

    Oh! It’s NOT PC to vilify McVeigh and his ilk; only the Muslims?

    In today’s political climate of hatred, I truly fear for our country which is rotting from the inside due to the hate machine.

  4. Dean Moriarty says:

    Would Utah residents oppose building any more LDS churches because the people who carried out the Mountain Meadows Massacre (September 11, 1857) were mormons? 120 innocent men , women and children lost their lives in that attack.

  5. Nevada Smith says:

    Wake up ! Kind and considerate people, who I Love in Utah….It is not just the so-called radical Muslims that we should be concerned with…all of Islam is radical!!! They want to implement Shariah Law all over the world…think I’m wrong?….Look at Europe…Look at England…they move in…very quietly and get a majority…and then vote in their form of barbaric law that is not only detrimental for human rights, but are extremely aggressive toward women…
    Concerning the Mosque in New York…it is a symbol of victory. They have done it in every conquered nation for a thousand years….beware America !!
    And who ever compared Mormons to these people ARE mis informed….Mormons as a rule are kind and generous….Muslims launch rockets at innocent Jews every day…they tie bombs to their kids…they shoot people for no reason, other than fear tactics….Mormons never attacked anyone…Muslims have attacked us several times…twice in NY….and furthermore…McVeigh was found guilty and executed….the Muslim attackers, except the one that died in the Twin Tower are either running loose or in prison….why are they still breathing? Wake up America…they are at war with us…listen to the son of the Hamas leader who converted to Christianity….scary stuff….Wake up America!!!!

  6. Dean Moriarty says:

    Only one of the attackers of the mountain meadow massacre was ever held guilty for the crime. John D. Lee was excuted for his role nearly 20 tears after the fact. The rest of the killers went back into their comunity and resumed there everyday lives.

  7. Nevada Smith says:

    Dean…I know it was tragic, but that terrible ordeal was prompted by fear and revenge…Those Missourians were bragging and taunting the folks about killing and molesting Mormons…saying bad things about Joseph….the folks in that region were wrong in what they did…but it surely wasn’t sanctioned by the Church….It was a knee-jerk reaction to a previous time that was pretty rough on the Mormon’s…sad, but true….What I am talking about is a planned take-over of the world by the Muslims….planned, sanctioned and in progress….Beware!!! Now does that mean we run out and cause legal citizens some problems…no….just wake up and start implementing laws against the ongoing agendas of people who want to harm us…they know they are at war…it’s called Jihad….Wake up…or you’ll be facing East three times a day and bowing just like our dear President did…wake up!!!!

  8. Dean Moriarty says:

    Muslims pray 5 times a day. The facts are that the wagon train of people basically from Arkansas had nothing to do with alleged acts against the mormons. Speaking ill of a religious leader does not justify killing 120 people including children. The mormon missionary program attempts to convert the world. The leaders of the massacre were all active and held leadership positions in the church. Utah was governed by a religious leader(Brigham Young) at the time of the mountain meadows massacre. How do you tell the difference between legal citizens who are muslims and the ones who you hate? Or do you propose to make it illegal to be a muslim?

  9. ken thomson says:

    Nevada Smith you are correct. The rest dribble

  10. Nevada Smith says:

    Dean…the Church doesn’t teach hate…nor do I hate Muslims…they want us to convert or perish….you are missing the point my friend…Church teachings are to spread tolerance…we accept anyone, but not at the threat of life or death…have you seen the posters at some of these Muslim rallies right here in the good old USA. We preach love….go in peace my friend….but be aware…there is trouble brewing on the horizon….

  11. Al says:

    Nevada wrote, “Wake up…or you’ll be facing East three times a day and bowing just like our dear President did…wake up!!!!”

    People are supposed to take you seriously when you underscore your paranoia by claiming that the President is Muslim?

    Sure, Nevada, you’re full of love. Except for when you’re full of irrational, baseless fear.

  12. Dean Moriarty says:

    Christianity also has a history of forcing people to convert or be killed. The LDS church had their own hit/kill squad. Look up the Danities. Or Orrin Porter Rockwell. Or Bill Hickman. My framily has lived in Utah since 1949 and i understand the culture and paranoia. You are taking the extremeist talk of radical muslims and trying to believe that it cover all of Islam. Every religion has its dark side and a history it would like to ignore. You can be happy in seeing a threat everywhere you look but spreading hysteria will help no one. The mountain meadows massacre was carried out by religious men who thought they were doing Gods work.

  13. Joe says:

    As someone who has been to the middle east more than a few times, I would say that there is truth in both of the arguments here. One it is inaccurate to compare modern day christianity to modern day islam. The reason is Islam excpet for a very small number of sects has not been reformed since the 7th century. If you believe in religoin or not the simple fact of the matter is that the new testament as well as most of the major christian groups (that matter) do not preach hate or disdain for other religions. They may argue their point and how the other is wrong but christanity is not currently wagging war against any ethic group (Jews) or calling for the death of non believers.

    I suggest those of you that hide behind the freedom of religion and free speech so much look into the actual preachings of Islam and gain a better understanding of what the actual intent of the Dar El Islam is (House of Peace) and how the Dar El Harb (House of War) is to be conquered. Many of you may say that well these are scripts written long ago, and I would say I agree the only difference is that a majority of the Muslim population reads these literally and because there has not been a reform of this religion, there is no way to seperate the literal from the spritual. Westerns are quick to apply our ugly American perspectives on other cultures some times to our own determent.

    I enjoy reading both sides of the arguement and I beileve we must encourage our Muslim allies to accpet modern human rights governing and seperation of church of state but then again thats why they have survived for so long much as we will fall like Rome there beliefs are rock solid as barbaric as they are, these beliefs have served as a very effective geopolitical tool.

    Jihad is not a battle within, at least not when I see my countrymen and allies being killed for being an infedel.

    Judeo Christain beliefs are the bedrock of this country, loose them and we loose the country to socialists and big goverment.

  14. Dovie says:

    Muslim fundamentalism looks exactly like Christian fundamentalism. I have never figured out why we went to war in Iraq hoping to make them more secular while at the same time insisting that America needs a return to fundamentalist christianity.

  15. Shooter 973 says:

    Well all I know is that ALL of the terrorist that attacked the Twin Towers were Muslims and that a lot of others Muslims celebrated the act.
    Not all Muslims are Terrorists but ALL of the Terrorists have been Muslims.

  16. Al says:

    Let’s try this Shooter 973-style.

    Well, all I know is that all of the terrorists who have bombed family planning clinics were Christians and that a lot of the other Christians celebrated those acts. Not all Christians are terrorists, but all of those terrorists have been Christians.

    Oh, it’s not that simple?

  17. Nevada Smith says:

    Joe…you have been awakened….thank you

    Dear Al…Our President hasn’t set foot in church since he was sworn in…he didn’t acknowledge the National Day of prayer…he had several thousand Muslims at the Whitehouse on their rugs praying to Allah…wake the heck up…Barry Sortero is a Muslim….if you think that Obama was sitting in Wright’s church for inspiration…wake up…Wright is the fear monger…not any of us…
    And for you who compare Christianity to the Muslims…the only time that Christians, as a body have been aggressive is nearly a 1,000 years ago…we have improved…the Muslims are still in the same mind-set….wake up!!!!! and Al…if you think that Christians find joy in someone dying because of the abortion issue…you are wrong. But, we are saddened by someone being murdered….at any stage of development. We live by laws…God’s laws…remember the Ten Commandments….Thou shalt not kill…fairly straight forward….

  18. Nevada Smith says:

    Dean…you better brush up on your church history my friend….those statements are very innaccurate….Brother Rockwell was never convicted of any heinous crime…he was a notable Marshall, tracker and body guard for the Prophet. They lived in perilous times. The refining process takes some time…both for the church….line upon line and for the members…none of us are perfect…and Porter had his faults I’m sure…but he was revered as an honest straight forward servant for many folks ….C’mon Dean let’s look on the bright side….

  19. Nevada Smith says:

    oh and by the way…never has the LDS Church forced anyone to join or to stay…nor did they punish anyone for leaving….where are you getting that balderdash….

  20. Bob Becker says:

    Nevada:

    You need to ask them to let you out of the Bunker now and then, Nevada.

    You wrote: “Our President …didn’t acknowledge the National Day of prayer.” You can find President Obama’s presidential proclamation declaring a national day of prayer here:
    http://nationaldayofprayer.org/news/2010-presidential-proclamation/

    The President you say “he had several thousand Muslims at the Whitehouse on their rugs praying to Allah…” He did? When was that? Any source other than your fevered paranoia and hate? There was no such gathering at the WH. There was a gathering of Moslims in front of the Capital Building for public prayer. It was not sanctioned by the White House. You can find the story here:

    http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/muslim-prayer-day-sept-25/

    You say “hasn’t set foot in church since he was sworn in.” Really? Chicago Sun Times, 5 April, 2010: “WASHINGTON–President Obama, First Lady Michelle, Malia, Sasha and First Gram, Marian Robinson, attended Easter Sunday services at Allen Chapel AME. The church is in a part of the city a few miles from a recent shooting spree that left four dead. This is the fifth time Obama has attended church in Washington since becoming president.”

    Full story link here:
    http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2010/04/for_fifth_time_obama_attends_c.html

    And if you want to start comparing church attendance for Presidents, you’re going to have a hard time dealing with that serial Sunday-sleeper-inner Ronald Reagan.

    We have the internet now, Nevada, and the paranoid delusions you peddle so blithely are easy to check out.

  21. Nevada Smith says:

    Nice try Bob…but splittin’ hairs does not change the fact that he is a Muslim, or at least a sympathizer…and the Muslims are moving in on us….

    I checked your sights and he did post the declaration….but, canceled the formal ceremony at the White House….
    And you are right, I misspoke…the thousands of Muslims were at the Capitol Building…boy that’s a huge difference, ain’t it Bobber….and finally 5 times out of let’s see if I have the math right….1.5 years times 52…..not a very good attempt for a dedicated soul…I don’t care if he ever goes to church….that’s not the point Bob…he is a Muslim sympathizer …wake up….this is not hatred….this is abject concern for our country…it is the mentality of people like you that have allowed 20 million illegals into this country….have allowed anchor babies to be citizens(only country in the world to do that,Bob)…and you will let them turn up the heat and wallow in your race card and “hate” cards as they are locking the gate on you….wake up…..read a story about Austria and how they loved the third reich ….for a while….I don’t hate the average Joe…he just wants a family and a good life….but he will jump on the bandwagon as Sharia law takes effect in this country…I hope there are enough people that are awake so that you don’t have to experience that trauma….Bob
    enjoy!!

  22. Al says:

    It’s telling, Nevada, that when informed of the pile of evidence against your various assertions, you reply that the facts don’t matter, because Obama is a Muslim anyway.

    Having established that facts don’t matter to you, I am nonetheless curious where you gained all this fervent belief. Who keeps telling you that Obama is a Manchurian Muslim, and on what do they base those claims?

  23. D Lee says:

    Marriage means two become one. It is not just spiritual but physical as well. Anything else is un-natural. A man and a woman are each given one sexual organ and the two come together to become one. I believe homosexuality is an emotional disorder. Many homosexuals were molested as children, had a distant father, an overbearing mother, or some traumatic or dysfunctional upbringing. In stead of trying to embrace homosexuality, we should be trying to help people come out of it. It is a destructive lifestyle with lower life expectancy than the norm. No wonder suicide rates in this group are so high. Many people have come out of the lifestyle and gone on to live normal, happy lives.

  24. Nevada Smith says:

    What facts Al…that there were Muslims at the capital building instead of the White House ….that Obama attended some church as a photo-op…that Obama cancelled the prayer ceremony ….How about these facts…his Grandmother says he was born in Kenya…he was registered as a foreign student…he was named Barry Sortero and lived somewhere other than the US ….never heard Rev Wright say anything negative about our country…has caused more diviciveness in this country on the race issue since the Civil War….called the police force stupid…has decimated our troops by claiming that they knew the risk before they volunteered….came out of Chicago politics ands claimed he didn’t hardly know anybody involved…c’mon Al…this guy is just wrong…now let’s get back to the issue…you libs have a way of circumventing the point by splittin’ hairs and calling it facts…the point is…we need to beware of all Muslims…period…some are more radical than others, but we are at war with the violent folks…and they are absolutely at war with us…remember, only about a third of this country were Patriots…a third middle of the road and the rest were loyal to the King….and look what happened…the most glorious Nation of Earth…let’s keep it shall we!!!

  25. Nevada Smith says:

    Oh yea…I forgot…he claimed…I repeat claimed to be Muslim in his book…which he had a revolutionary bomber write…Ayers…yea Bill Ayers…who thinks he should have bombed more…great pals…kind of important to note these little facts…He is a Muslim, Al….and Bob….and however else needs to be awakened….
    Back in the Bunker….high on a hilltop watchin out for all y’all.

  26. Nevada Smith says:

    By the way Bob…Pres. Ronald Reagan did more for this country and the world than any other modern day president….If you want to discuss it at length, it would be a pleasure…just ask a few million Russians and other former Soviet-block citizens how grateful they are…let alone our own.

  27. BobBecker says:

    Nevada:

    Well, let’s see now. You agree that your claim that President Obama ignored the “national day of prayer” was not true. You agree that your claim that “thousands” of Moslims were welcomed at the White House with their prayer rugs was also not true. And you agree now that your claim that the President had never attended church since his inauguration was false as well. Zero for three, Nevada. Zero for three.

    I was hoping that now you’d begin to wonder whether whoever was feeding you those false claims about the President could be trusted in the future, that you’d treat a lot more skeptically the next viral email screed from whatever sources you got those three items. And that you’d start to wonder, at least a little, about your eager and uncritical willingness to accept those false reports as fact.

    I think Al got it right above [for which thanks, Al]: “It’s telling, Nevada, that when informed of the pile of evidence against your various assertions, you reply that the facts don’t matter,

  28. Nevada Smith says:

    reread my post three times, Bob…maybe you’ll get it….

  29. Salt River Project says:

    “Focus on the message, not the messanger.”

    Gingrich may not be perfect as Mr Trentleman so gleefully pointed out, but if I held the same standards of conduct up to other political figures than I could just as easily dismiss relevant commentary from Bill “Macanudo” Clinton, Barack Obama , Al (the sex poodle) Gore and many others. What makes him a target of Trentleman is simply the little “R” next to his name on the teleprompter.

  30. ctrentelman says:

    No, Salt River Project, you are wrong.

    What makes him a target for me is that, while he was riding his family values high horse and condemning Bill Clinton and saying how leaders should be morally responsible and never ever do anything immoral he was, in secret, boinking his future third wife while not telling his second wife.

    Hypocrisy, sir, is what he did wrong, not put that R behind his name.

  31. Al says:

    Nevada Smith writes, “reread my post three times, Bob…maybe you’ll get it….”

    I get paranoid, willfully ignorant fear. Is there more there?

  32. Nevada Smith says:

    Paranoia is dillusional , Al….just read or watch…it’s all there….no fear, just caution….they are turning up the heat….and you need to be aware…that’s all Al…that’s all….what I would like to know is why are you defending these terrorists that kill innocent people every day….is there something wrong with your perspective?….Why would you even question my position when it is so obvious that they have a radical agenda….I’m just saying beware….

  33. Bob Becker says:

    Nevada:

    You ask of Al: “what I would like to know is why are you defending these terrorists that kill innocent people every day?”

    I just re-read every post Al put up in this current conversation, and I found not a single line in any of it in which Al “defends terrorists that kill innocent people every day.”

    But you’re right, Nevada, that “paranoia is delusional.” Your most recent post is good evidence of that.

  34. Nevada Smith says:

    Bob…did your microscopic analysis miss the point…raise your sights….Al is comparing Christians to Muslims…c’mon Bob…this is way too easy….make it just a bit tuffer for me….
    Bottom line….Muslims want to enact Shariah law in the World and they will do it anyway they can….they don’t care about you or me or our rights….all I’m saying Bobber is be aware…I have done my job….criticize the tiny issues all you want…libs are very good at that…just like they are doing in Arizona…bottom line …illegals need to go home..got a problem with that Al or Bob….

  35. Al says:

    Thanks, Bob. I couldn’t remember defending terrorists that kill innocent people every day (or even most days, or, Thursdays, or, like, only when there’s nothing good on Al Jazeera or anything), either.

    Nevada Smith: “Al is comparing Christians to Muslims”

    When you put it that way it becomes clear that I’m a monster, truly, I don’t know how I live with myself.

  36. Nevada Smith says:

    Oh now Al…you are not a monster…just a little misguided…Hey boys…did you hear that our President is going to be on the “View”…what a tremendous opportunity for him to share his views with the world…what a dignified experience for the leader of the greatest nation on earth…oh, and because of his “View” appearance…he passed up an invitation to meet with the Boy Scouts at their 100 year jamboree….what a decision-maker our President is…don’t you think?

  37. Jim says:

    But the violent Muslims were at one time in their lives very non-violent, especially when they were only two years old! So remember that all of the sickos were at one time nice humans – so why should we ever think that non-violent ones near Ground Zero could ever take off their mosques, er, masks? To see a most enlightening article, Google “Imam Bloomberg’s Sharia Mosque.” Good night, sleep tight. Jim

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