Bad manners are what Hatch needs to condemn

Needless to say, if I’d heard President Obama’s speech before finishing my column in today’s paper I wouldn’t have changed much, but I would have had another really horrendous example of the sort of boorish behavior that Hatch, if he were a real leader who cared about his country, would condemn very publicly in the very strongest language possible.

I was glad to see Sen. John McCain do so. He’s got the job security and weight to do that without repurcussions, which is exactly why Hatch needs to do so as well. If leaders of Congress can’t work for the country, insuring good productive debate by reigning in that sort of shinanigans, why are they leaders?

And it is about the good of the country. Everyone agrees that this nation’s health care system is broken. Everyone agrees it needs to be fixed. Jerks calling the president names do not help. That idiot from South Carolina probably hurt his cause, and helped the Democrats, more than he knows, but he also added to the polarization, which I get the feeling Obama is really trying to do away with.

It’s interesting to see what that idiot and a few others are hanging their hat on — the health care proposals do specifically prohibit helping anyone who is not here legally with one caveat — they provide prenatal care to illegal immigrants who are pregnant.

Why? Well, because that unborn child will be a citizen if born here, under current law (Presidential opponents can discuss “natural born” in precise detail) and because there used to be a feeling in this country that, no matter what the parent has done, the innocent child should not suffer as a consequence. This is one of those “christian” things you hear about. or used to be.

That seems to have gone by the board here — Obama is a liar because illegal immigrants could, indeed, get one specific type of care, but they’d have to be a pregnant female to do it? Kind of a stretch.

 This also puts opponents of health care reform in the interesting position of not caring for the health of the unborn, while at the same time not wanting to pay for any abortions of that unborn because they care so deeply about the life of that unborn, just not the quality of that life, or even if the kid lives after being born or dies because of some problem that could have been fixed, if found.

Which means, when born without proper prenatal care, the child will have a greater potential for birth defects, arrested development, disease, bad teeth, and who knows what else, all which carry huge costs to society in direct medical costs and lost potential.

In short, they want the kid alive, but they don’t want anything to do with it either before birth or after.

This makes no sense, but neither does much else in the health care debate coming from people who, very very obviously, don’t want reform if a Democratic Party president has anything to do with it at all. That’s the bottom line here.

I’m also growing weary of all the gum flapping about costs.

Yes, that is a worry, but there is much that these same worriers want the U.S. to buy that they don’t want to pay for, and you don’t see them screaming about that cost. The $100 billion a year we’re paying for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are prime examples — Bush ran them off budget so he could pretend they weren’t there but never raised a nickel to pay the bill. He slapped down the national Mastercard and kicked the whole thing down the road to the same grandchildren that everyone says will get stuck with the health care reform bill.

These same people refuse to raise taxes to pay for what they want. They refuse to cut spending. They just want what they want – D or R, all the same in this regard, although I give an edge to the R side of the equation because they preach fiscal responsibility while never, ever, discussing raising the funds to pay for what they buy.

Say what you will, a “tax and spend” politician is at least discussing raising the revenue.

ps: Just had a phone call from a woman in Brigham City who wanted to know how to send a copy of my column today to Sen. Hatch in case his subscription to the paper landed in the bushes. Send it to:

Sen. Orrin Hatch,
104 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202) 224-5251
Fax: (202) 224-6331

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13 Responses to Bad manners are what Hatch needs to condemn

  1. Doug Gibson says:

    The immigration issue as it relates to health care is very tricky. You can’t deny fellow human beings care when they are suffering. And you can’t implement a program that snatches human beings away from their families when they go to an emergency room at the hospital. It would probably be more honest of the president to include illegals who have been here a long time in health care reform, but that’s not politically tenable. It needs to be addressed in future immigration reform or the money drain will continue.

  2. Mark Shenefelt says:

    Maybe some of the a”You Lie” posse should spend a few shifts in an ER, just to see what people go through, legal or illegal. Then they should come back and stand guard duty at the door if and when we prevent some people, even illegals, from receiving ER care. Just a thought.

  3. laytonian says:

    So….how are we to separate “illegal” and “legal”?

    Am I supposed to take my short-form birth certificate (the only type issued by Weber County in 1952 and 1996) with me, in addition to my driver’s license, to prove I’m the person on the insurance policy?

    If an illegal is working for a company, does that company cover them under their healthcare plan? Or….are we ALL supposed to suffer because that company pays them under the table?

    Gee, which side of the political equation are those companies on?

    Immigration is a tricky issue, for sure.
    We hear screams of “deport them”.
    OK, how do we pay to deport millions of people and keep them out? Raise your taxes, or add to the deficit.

    On another forum today, I saw a comment about “health care is not a right, and if you can’t afford it, you aren’t working hard enough”.

    OK, let’s see who’s really working the hardest in the country, and I’d bet you $500 to Joe Wilson’s re-election campaign that those “hard workers” are primarily the people who do not have coverage.

    I have no answer to the immigration problem, except I wish the immigrants would quit parking on the grass, and start maintaining their homes. Water the lawn, and keep the landscape nice. Get to know your neighbors. Don’t have late-night loud parties with music that can be heard down the block.

    Why? Because I think those simple, visible things would remove some of the prejudice I hear from neighbors of illegals.

  4. ctrentelman says:

    um…. that’s actually my yard you’re looking at there, Laytonian. The hispanics are the ones with the neatly trimmed yards. Frankly, I’m amazed my neighbors don’t firebomb me.

    Although the paralyzed lady across the street has been known to mow it for me. She thinks she’s so cute on that riding mower…

  5. Annakin says:

    Did Charles forget that the president called people liars in the speech itself?


  6. Michael Trujillo says:


    I’ll bet you don’t have a real good reason for believing that cars shouldn’t be parked on grass and lawns should be watered, except that you were indoctrinated at a young age that it’s “normal’ to do so. Moving to Utah from California, I was adamant that I wouldn’t water my lawn more than twice a week just to keep Kentucky blue grass green in a desert. I sure got a lot of comments from my neighbors.

    Now I’m back in California and I don’t have a lawn and my neighbors stop to pass the time of day rather than ask me about my brown lawn. Sure is nice to know I’m not wasting water on a mid-twentieth century custom.

    I also think it’s funny that, if you park your car in front of your house on the grass, it bothers people. But if you cement over the grass and make a car pad, it’s OK to park your car in the exact same spot.

    I agree with you on a lot of issues, laytonian, but the grass thing is pretty whacked, IMO.

  7. ctrentelman says:

    Annakin, there’s hypocricy and there’s bad manners — obama was saying that people saying stuff about death panals were telling lies because lies is what they are. He’s the president, it was his speech, he gets to say what he wants.

    Hollering out such an epithet in the middle of a presidential speech is massive disrespect for the office of the presidency, the Congress, and the American people — it was behavior that nobody would have tolerated if it had been Bush, and I see no reason to tolerate it because it is Obama.

    If Wilson wants to call Obama a liar in public, let him go get his own hall. When someone screams at him from the audience, showing massive disrespect, I expect Mr. Wilson and all his defenders to nod politely at such wonderful behavior.

  8. laytonian says:

    Charlie’s right, Annakin.

    Obama did not call anyone a liar; he talked about specific falsehoods that were being spread.

    What Joe Wilson did, however, was shout an epithet YOU LIE! directly at the President.

    The only way this would be equal, Annakin, would be if Obama had said “Sarah Palin is a liar”.

    Well…but we know Palin is, so maybe he should have.
    Palin proclaimed Alaska Health Care Decisions Day on April 16, 2008 – wherein she asked Alaska citizens to focus on living wills and end-of-life decisions.

    But when a Republican inserts such language into a health care bill, Palin and her little friend Betsy McCaughey cry “death panels” (and Sarah Palin makes sure that the 2008 proclamation disappears from the State of Alaska website).

    See the difference, Annakin?

  9. laytonian says:

    Hey, everyone….on the grass issue and not parking in the front yard. I was referencing a specific situation that’s affected a neighborhood where relatives live. I’m not a bit uppity about it. There’s a problem.

    My neighbors don’t like the fact that I have a car sitting out in the driveway all the time….and we water and mow as little as we can get away with.

    We asked Weber Basin to quit mowing the field behind our homes, and we now have a great wild bird and squirrel habitat….which is also irking some of the neighbors who are trying to grow tomatoes.

    I guess it’s always something….and sometimes it’s ourselves.

    Point taken, but I’m glad I don’t live near the relatives.

  10. laytonian says:

    Take a look here:

    Just refresh it every few hours, and see how the donations are growing.

    Rob Miller is Joe “You Lie!” Wilson’s Democratic opponent, and an Iraq war veteran. I like veterans, and would like to see more of them in high office.

    When I first looked this afternoon, Miller had collected just about $479,000. As I post right now, he’s at $636,419.

    It was worth it for my husband and I to support this vet with a $100 donation; the fact that Mr You Lie! may be unseated, is a bonus.

  11. laytonian says:


    Almost $100,000 more has been donated to Joe “You Lie!” Wilson’s Democratic opponent.

  12. MacDaddy says:

    As of today both Joe Wilson and his opponent have received over one million in donations since Joe yelled out the only true words spoken during the speech.

    It is a wash and as long as Joe stands by his words he will be easily reelected.

  13. craig says:

    I take exception with your “everyone” comments that health care is broken and needs to be fixed. That’s a false statement because I am part of everyone and I don’t believe health care is broken nor that it needs to be fixed by our government. Your premise is false on the surface. False premise, conclusion also untrue.

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