I call on you, my God, for you will answer me; turn your ear to me and hear my prayer. (Psalm 17:6 NIV)
Some years ago, I was the fourth and fifth grade science mentor teacher for the Ogden City Schools. Teachers came to my workshops to learn how to teach the science curriculum for their grade. As part of the workshop, each teacher received a classroom set of all the supplies that were needed to teach each lesson that I presented.
The supplies for the workshops were stored in the school basement. Each Wednesday, as soon as school was out, I began moving that day’s supplies up from the basement to my room, where I distributed them to the desks where the teachers would sit.
This process took about an hour and a half, and then the teachers would arrive for the workshop. For the next three hours, I would teach the teachers how to do experiments and demonstrations that they could later use with their students. My plans for each workshop were on 3 by 5 index cards which I kept in the pocket of my shirt.
One Wednesday, I finished setting out the supplies about fifteen minutes before the class was to start. I sat down and reached for the index cards to review what I was going to teach. And the cards were not in my pocket.
I panicked. Without my notes, I would not be able to teach the class. Maybe one or two experiments, but not three hours’ worth. I began frantically looking for my notes. I looked all over the room. No notes. I looked on the stairs and in the basement. No notes. I looked in the rest room. No notes. Then I did it all again. Still no notes.
I sat down at one of the student desks and put my head in my hands. “Oh, God,” I prayed, “what am I going to do? Please help me.”
My body and head felt an extremely strong vibration as I felt something, some power, take control of my body. I stood up, but not under my own volition. I began to walk, but not under my own direction. I still felt the vibration, like that of a powerful aircraft engine, as I walked to the back corner of the room.
And there were my notes. On a shelf above a computer desk, in a place where they had no reason to be, where I had already looked many times, were my index cards. I reached out my hand and picked them up, and the vibration faded away.
That was the day that I learned first hand that God is real and answers prayers. Mountains were not moved, the sea was not parted, and nothing happened important enough to make the newspapers.
But it was important to me, not only because was I able to teach my workshop, but more importantly because God took control of my body and did for me what I had not be able to do by myself.
It was the day that I learned that God is real. And He answers prayers.
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And you teach science? Flying Spaghetti Monster help us!
There is no conflict between science and religion, save for those who want there to be one.
Science answers the questions what, and when, and sometimes where.
Religion answers the questions who and why.
No conflict at all.
There can be conflict between the two. Especially when people use one to try and prove the other. When someone already has their mind made up as to what they believe, and then uses any means to prove that belief, there is conflict.
People use prayer in the same manner. You can give prayer as much power as you are inclined to believe, but it doesn’t mean that it was the prayer. Maybe it was just your memory kicking in and relaying past events before you, but then again it could have been the prayer, as long as you believe it. Belief is the key word.
My post did not argue that science and faith were not compatible, though I find it interesting that you seem to think it did. What I found troublesome in someone who teaches science is your willingness to leap to a profound conclusion on the basis of pitifully thin evidence. “I can’t find my note cards… oh, there they are. Therefor: prayer works!” Since you would agree, I hope, that science requires evidence to support whatever those practicing it discover about the world and how it works, and that the broader the claim involved, the more substantial the evidence uncovered for it must be, I find it odd, and in a teacher of science to teachers of science, troubling that you would offer such thin evidence ["I found my note cares!"] as conclusive proof that “god exists and prayer works.”
My points do not require an assumption that science and religious belief are mutually exclusive. They merely require a recognition that the “evidence” [politely so called] that you offered for your claim that “prayer works” is woefully thin to support the conclusion you reached.
Richard Leakey just pronounced Evolution is true with his “Turkana Boy”; a chip of the ole block eh? His father Louis pushed the “Piltdown Man” hoax with his Jesuit mystic counterpart Pierre Tielhard du Chardin despite mountains of evidence proving it a forgery.
It’s sad Dave will not debate Science versus Scripture with you Bob; I will, but you will likely bow out.
What do you teach Dave?
Actually, it was not intended as evidence, but as an anecdote.
OK.
On the general topic of science and religion, and in particular, the views of scientists as a group on the matter of faith, there’s an interesting article up on Patheos — http://www.patheos.com/blogs/scienceonreligion/2012/05/few-scientists-see-science-in-conflict-with-religion/ — the title of which is: “Few scientists see science in conflict with religion.” It’s based on a fairly extensive survey of those in the sciences at the leading research universities in the US, plus follow-up interviews. Here’s the gist of piece:
Contrary to popular belief, the researchers found, based on their interviews, that only 15% of scientists think that science and religion inherently conflict. The same exact percentage of scientists believe that religion and science can never conflict. The remaining 70% stated that conflict could occur under specific conditions. Scientists, far from being a monolithic group, mostly developed various complex and context-sensitive ways of discussing the relationship between religion and science.
The article goes into more detail about the views of the various groups. I found it chewy and worth a read. Thought you might too.
Anecdotes aside Dave, What do you teach? About Evolution Theory? Gravity Theory? Heliocentric Theory? Atomic Theory?
How old is Creation? When was the Flood?
Teaching vague anecdotes is what makes Christians seem like fools. Paul taught to “Prove all things” Why not skip the anecdotes and try some solid proof? I’d be happy to help with that.
Bob doesn’t like “answer to prayer stories.” I have a similar story to Dave’s. I lost the diamond in my wedding ring. I searched the house, I went through the vacuum bag twice. Then I decided to get down on my hands and knees to search. While I was down there, I thought, “What the heck. It won’t hurt to pray.” So I said, “Heavenly Father, I don’t know if you care about things like wedding ring diamonds, but I do and if you could help me out, I would really appreciate it.” When I opened my eyes, there was the diamond, on the white tile floor where it was hardly visible from any other position. Bob and others will say it was coincidence and, heck, I might, too, but Bob and others can’t explain away the overwhelming feeling of love and peace I received at that same moment.
As to religion and science–they do very different things. Not sure why we always pit them against each other. My religion has no argument with science (although some members of my religion might).
Why are notes more important than prayers for this unfortunate woman’s quality of life? I have a great deal of respect for you, Dave, but … http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/18/health/georgia-flesh-eating-bacteria/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
I’m not following your question, Doug. Are you suggesting that God did not give the surgeons the skills and knowledge needed to save the young woman’s life? Or do you mean that prayer should have resulted in Divine intervention in returning her body to what it was before she contracted the flesh eating bacteria?
Praise the Lord, Aimee is alive and off the ventilator! She is cracking jokes and is positive about her future. Quotes from her dad: “I believe God is going to take care of the future.” “I just thank God my daughter is alive.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/21/woman-with-flesheating-di_n_1532465.html
“Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called” 1 Tim 6:20
Science is directly opposed to Scripture.
Creation is not Evolution
Geology claims Earth is several billion years old; Scripture says it is just under 6000 years
Science claims the Big Bang Created the Universe; God says He Created it
Science says Gravity orders the Universe; Daniel calls Satan the “God of Forces” and today Scientists call Gravity “God Particles”
Cosmology says Stars create Matter; God says He Created Matter.
God says Earth is Fixed and not moving; Science claims Earth Orbits the Sun.
Science claims the Earth began as molten rock and the interior is still molten; God says the Earth’s interior contains lots of Water.
Science claims the continents slid to to heir current positions over missions of years; God says he divided the Nations in 120 years following the 1 year Flood in the days of Joktan and Peleg.
What did you teach as Science adviser Dave? Be specific please. If you like, I can prove Creation, Geocentricity, the Flood etc to you and the Congregation at Ascension Lutherian.
My material is posted at http://www.Theresnothingnew.org/ in the Science section. Howard Ratcliffe
Howard, I believe you must be confusing me with some Biblical fundamentalist. That would not describe me.
The ELCA’s position on the Bible is that it is authoritative, but not inerrant. I agree with that position.
Hi Dave, 1 John 5:7 and John 1:1 sum up the Word perfectly; The Word, Father, Holy Ghost are One; written from the beginning. It has no errors. Check out Gen 27:39-41 it is opposite in new versions compared to the Masoretic Text of the Authorized Bible. Amos 7:2-3; 5-6 are altered significantly to justify modern Israel as God’s reclamation of Israel; it is not; rather it is Esau’s Dominion. 1 John 5:7 is missing in the NIV because God makes no errors; He delivers the Word through the Holy Ghost to Holy men.
Christmas, Lent, Easter, Water Baptism, Priest Communion are all in direct violation of God’s New Covenant.
Make Jesus your Priest and the folly of Churches, whether Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Catholic or Mormon will become painfully evident. http://www.theresnothingnew.org/
BTW, your still didn’t answer my question on science “What do you teach?’
Dave,
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. If I remember correctly, you are not LDS (correct?). Yet your experience is one that would probably resonate (pun intended) with most Mormons. I am a former Mormon. As a non believer I think I’m even more fascinated by the practice of prayer and beliefs regarding answers to prayers. One question I have is how do believers reconcile a God who will intercede to solve a relatively minor problem (like lost index cards), but fails to prevent horrors like child rape or the brutal maiming of an individual by others. Perhaps this hasn’t been a concern for you and you have no answer. If such is the case, I accept that. If you do have an answer that works for you though, please share.
Thanks,
Zack
I realize I am late to the party here. I have documented hundreds of experiences (and believe I have failed to document many others) in my life that were “answers to prayer”. Sometimes I have been guided to certain information/etc. or had specific impressions, voices, feelings, etc. I have shared some with others (believers and non believers) and some believe our brain capability has never been fully documented or understood. I do not disagree that I cannot prove whether these “answers” are coming from the Spirit or my brain but as long as it works by praying (pondering the issue and asking if it is right or wrong, etc.) to my Heavenly Father I will continue this process. I have also experimented with visualization and mental suggestions and have had some degree of success and so I also agree our brains have capacities we need to use to a greater extent.